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Logical Consequences: Public Tantrums

Last month, I asked you readers for specific situations you needed help applying logical consequences in, and we got quite the response! I will take each response and tell you exactly what I would do if one of my children did that, or what we have done when our children did that. I was going to address them all in one post, but after starting to write it, I realized it would be one long post. So I will break them up item by item and make a series out of it.

Scenario #1

"Arching back" yelling tantrums in public!

Oh, the joy. The child throwing a fit in public. This can be quite paralyzing. You know there are people looking at you with raised eyebrows thinking about what a bad parent you must be to have a child behaving like that. There are also people who have never had children thinking, "MY children will never act that way." Those a little closer to this stage of life will look at you sympathetically. Some might be interested to see how you handle it to see if you can give them any ideas. Others will sigh a breath of relief that this isn't their child.

Please rest assured that some day, your child will throw a fit in public. Even the best-trained children do it. It is a great place to test mom and dad. It isn't an "if" but rather a "when" question. How often these occur will depend highly on how you react to it.

For our family right now, none of our children are in this phase. Brayden and Kaitlyn have outgrown it and McKenna has yet to reach it. So first, what would I do with my children at their ages?

My exact reaction to this, as with probably all of the situations, would depend on the age of the child as well as the reason for the arching of the back.

If Brayden--almost 5-- did this (which he really, really wouldn't at this age), I would probably look at him like he was very strange and say something like, "What are you doing?"  in a confused way :). Another way I could see my self reacting would be to say, "Whoa. That is not okay. You do not act like that."

Kaitlyn has just turned 3. I would also be shocked if she did this right now. If she did, however, I don't think she would be as easy to calm as Brayden would be. I would look at her and say, "Kaitlyn, you need to stop throwing your fit right now. If you can't stop, we are going to leave and go sit in the car."

McKenna is 13 months old. While McKenna hasn't really reached this point, I know from experience it is coming, and probably within the next month :). I find these little ones quite easy to deal with. You can't really expect to reason with the 13 month old, and you really aren't likely to stop the fit like you can an older child. It is more of a situation to "ride out." With McKenna, I will hold her until she is done with her fit. If we are in a place where a fit isn't appropriate (like in a church meeting), I will take her out of the meeting and into the hall and hold her until she finishes her fit.

Here are some "dos" and "don'ts" for this situation.

DO:
  • Tell the child to stop. If your child is old enough to understand, you can tell your child to stop. I can do this with Brayden. He doesn't throw fits anymore, but he will start to cry sometimes. This is a delicate situation because his reason for crying is disappointment, not in order to get his way. I will tell him I know he is disappointed and that is okay, but he needs to learn to control his crying and be accepting of rules.
  • Remove the child. Probably one of the things I do most in a public setting like this is remove the child. If the child is throwing a fit about something, I physically pick the child up and remove him/her from the situation. I might just take them out of the room, to a different aisle, or even out to the car.
  • Remain calm. Children really can sense your emotions. They feed off of your emotions. If you are upset, they will be upset. Yelling isn't going to make your child want to comply (really, probably nothing will during this public fit, so yelling will just make you look ridiculous). You keep yourself calm. Act like you don't care.
  • Show sympathy. If your child is upset because he doesn't want to leave or because he wants out of the cart, tell him, "I know you are sad because you want to stay. I know this is lots of fun. But we need to go home now." Sometimes children seem to think you don't understand the reason they are upset, so if you can assure them you understand the reason, but things still aren't changing, then you might get somewhere. Eventually.
  • Talk it out. Tell your child what you are doing, what he can't be doing, what will happen if he keeps doing it, etc. Keep a nice, calm voice the whole time.
  • Follow through. If you tell your child that if he can't stop crying, you are going to leave the store, and yet he keeps right on crying, leave! Don't give any threat you will not follow through on.
  • Implement Ask & Tell: Before you go somewhere, go through the process of ask and tell. If your child is prone to fits when he doesn't get a treat he asks for, you tell him, "We are going in the store and we will not be buying any treats. I do not want you to ask me for any treats. Say Yes Mommy." Wait for response. "While we are in the store, are you going to ask for a treat?" Wait for response. Then you can also explain the consequence that will come if he doesn't obey. "If you ask me for a treat, then next time you don't get to come with the store with Mommy."
  • Take away privilege. One of my most commonly turned to forms of discipline is the loss of privilege. This is most effective as a teaching tool when it directly relates to the behavior. Did you throw a fit when it was time to leave the park? Next time, we won't go to the park. We will stay home. Did you throw a fit when you didn't get a treat? You won't get any treats tomorrow. The 14 month old won't comprehend causation, so this doesn't work for a pre-toddler, but at some point between 18-24 months, your child will be able to grasp this.
  • Leave immediately. A great method is to just leave the store--even if you have a full shopping cart. If you do, you will show your child his fits will not be accepted under any circumstance. If you are somewhere you can't fully leave, or if your child is throwing a fit in order to leave (say, church), go somewhere you can "leave to" like a hall, and then keep the location very dull. My children are allowed to quietly look at books and play with quiet toys in the meeting, but if we have to go in the hall, they are only allowed to sit still with their arms folded. The younger children sit in our laps. The hall is not a fun place to go. Leaving immediately is a great option for those fits of emotion.
  • Leave the child home. If Brayden were to suddenly start throwing fits in public, then I would just leave him home. I would hire a babysitter or just go out when my husband was home. I would explain he doesn't get to come with me to the store because he can't show behave appropriately while there. My kids love to go places, so this would be a real punishment.
  • Wait for the fit to end. Another tactic is to just step back and calmly wait for your child's fit to end. I wouldn't talk to the child or anything. I would just stand and wait for her to be done. When she is done, ask her if she is done throwing a fit, then move along your way. I would then later explain it was too bad she can't go to the store without throwing a fit because now you have to go without her and you like to take her with you, etc etc or whatever you explained would happen with ask & tell.
  • Walk away. Most of the time, fits are for attention. Some books say all of the time fits are for attention, but I don't agree. Some fits are out of anger, frustration, or sadness, in which case the child doesn't care if you are watching or not--he is throwing a fit to blow off steam, not get attention from you. If this is an attention fit, the walk away strategy could work. I think this is also more likely to work with the child closer to 4 than the child closer to 2. I haven't personally ever tried this method, but I have read about it enough I thought I would include it in your list of options.
DO NOT:
  • Give in. Number one rule of fits. Don't give in. If your child is throwing a fit because he doesn't want to leave, don't then concede by offering five more minutes. Giving in teaches the child that fits work. Think carefully before you tell your child no or announce you are leaving. If you know you will give in if a fit happens, just don't say no in the first place. It is better to say yes initially than to say yes after a fit.
  • Reward. This is along the lines of giving in. Donn't reward the child's fit. Your child needs to learn that the fit is not an acceptable form of communication. It is okay to be sad, but not okay to throw tantrums.
  • Bribe. Don't offer your child some sort of bribe in order to stop the fit. "If you come, I will give you a cookie when we get home!" A child could easily think, "oh, if I throw a fit before we leave, then I get a cookie when I get home. Sweet deal." If you know you will want to turn to this, then just offer the cookie in the first place. "Let's go home now so we can eat our cookie before it is time for nap."
My Stories
To give you a boost, here are some of my stories about public fits that I remember.

I remember the first time Kaitlyn threw a fit in public. She was around 20-22 months old. We were in a store. I can't remember why the fit started, but I think it might have been something over the shopping cart. We had been in the store less than one minute and she marched into the middle of the aisle, laid down on the ground, and threw a fit.

Oh I couldn't help but laugh. My husband and I looked at each other amused. If she had been our oldest, we probably would have been mortified, but Brayden has always been a better fit thrower than Kaitlyn, so her fits have always been merely humorous to us. We both just stood and watched her until she decided she was done (it was only a minute or two). We then continued on doing whatever it was she was unhappy about and she complied. If she had continued the fit, we would have just had one of us go sit in the car with her while the other got what we needed.

~~~~~

Another Kaitlyn story. She was again around 22 months old. Let's remember that I was nearing the end of my pregnancy with McKenna. We were leaving a store and I told her to hold my hand. I have a rule that if they want to walk, they need to hold my hand. She didn't want to hold my hand. I told her she could hold my hand or I would carry her. She still refused. So I picked her up and carried her across the parking lot as she screamed and squirmed. It was highly uncomfortable for me, and it was a large parking lot, but I am also highly stubborn (a trait that can come in quite handy as a mom) and I carried her every last step to the vehicle. She never refused my hand again.

~~~~~

A Brayden story. Brayden's public tantrums usually revolved around him not wanting to leave a fun place. He has always, and still does, hated to leave a place he is having fun. Normal right? Sure. But he extra hates it. I always give him fair warning to help minimize the sadness, but as a toddler and even early preschool years, I never knew for sure that he would react nicely when it was time to leave.

Brayden was about two and Kaitlyn was about 6ish or so weeks old. We went to the park. When it came time to leave, he was so upset to leave. He started crying and ran away. I literally had to chase him down and carry him to the vehicle. I remained calm. I can understand him being upset; you know kids get cooped up when a new sibling comes on the scene. Plus it was nap time. But we definitely didn't go back to the park for several weeks--mostly just to protect myself from all that stress! lol

And actually, I think we had a similar situation when McKenna was born. Our first time to the park after her birth ended much the same way, though I seem to remember a crying newborn, a crying toddler, and a crying preschooler. It was a day to make me never want to return to the park again (don't worry, we have).

~~~~~

Conclusion
A good trick for this situation is to figure out the motivation behind the fit. Is it to express himself? Then work in times of non-conflict to teach him other ways of expressing himself. He might need to learn sign language. You might need to teach him some things to do when he feels upset, like to take a really deep breath.

Is the tantrum because he thinks he will be able to change your mind? If so, major consistency and follow-through will be required.

In the end, training for dealing with public fits starts at home. Train in times of non-conflict and employ ask and tell to avoid the fits. Also, don't expect your child to behave differently in public than he does at home, and don't expect him to react to some new technique in the store that you have never done at home. If you want your child to listen in public, he needs to be a super good listener at home.

I said it earlier, but I want to reiterate that every child throws a fit in public at some point. I know it isn't fun, but it also doesn't mean you are the world's worst parent, even when you get glances telling you otherwise. With time and consistency, you can work past the age of public tantrums--but don't think that the child will naturally outgrow this phase with no intervention from you. Follow the dos and don'ts listed above to help your child along the way.

RELATED POSTS/BLOG LABELS

Reader Discipline Questions

Public Behavior
  • elle said...
    i went out last weekend wif my girlfriends. each of us bringing our chlid. my daughter is 14 months old and is a very active child. she cudnt even sit still, not for one seconds. since we were having drinks, i put her in her high chair and she started making noises wanting to go down. there she were climbing and walking aroud wif me eyeeing her. somehow my friend commented and it sounds like my child is not well behaved since she is roaming around compared to her son who is 2 yrs old and another one 15 months who is happily playing wif the toys and sitting on the high chair. well, i though eahc child is different. since mine is only 14 month old and she has just start walking, i dont think that just because of her roaming around and cudnt keep still on the high chair, that was considered as not behaved. any comments?
    Plowmanators said...
    Elle, This is hard to say. In many ways it is normal, especially for a new walker. All new walkers want to do is walk. Either way, walking around in a restaurant is not something I would allow long-term. This may have been a situation where it was an exception to do this. My son was also very active as a baby (and still is). I wouldn't ever let him get down in a restaurant no matter how much he wanted to. Now at 3, he never asks. So just remember that what you do now teaches him what he can do later in life, and while a 14 month old might be cute to other patrons, a wandering three year old will not quite draw the same reaction.
    elle said...
    so what do i do if i put my 15 months old on the high chair, n yet after a few minutes she gets bored and cries because she wanna goes down and walked around? suhd i just let her cry or put her down? i usually give her food to enjoy while we eat or sometimes toys for her to play wif but later i found out she just love throwing the toys and seeing me pick it up. im a first time mother and i believe i have yet, lots more to learn.thanx.
    Plowmanators said...
    This would be something I would practice at home, not the restaurant. You have to remember others; you don't want to ruin their restaurant experience to train your daughter. Work with her at home. Put her in the high chair with food. At this age, she should be eating with the family for most meals (maybe not dinner if you eat "late"). Give her finger foods. Once she is done with that, give her toys and books to play with. Rotate them. Don't play the pick up a million times game with her. Have practice sessions with her in the high chair where she has to sit for X number of minutes. Start with 5 and set a time. Give her the food or toys. She can get out only when the timer goes off, not with the amount of crying she does. It will take some time and practice, but you can get her there. Good luck!
Punishment
  • ProudMum said...
    Whenever u discussed about discipline and tantrums and obedience, u never mention of punsishment. Does babywise says that not to punsih at all ?
    July 25, 2008 10:33 AM
     
    Plowmanators said...
    Proudmum,Your baby is too young for punishment. There are "punishments" mentioned in Babywise, but they are in the forms of removing baby from the situation, for older babies some isolation, etc. Most discipline as younger ages are really redirection. But at 5 months your baby is not in need of any punishment. Just direction.
    July 28, 2008 11:31 AM
     
    ProudMum said...
    Hello Val, Ofcourse five months is not for punishment. I was just asking in general that how Babywise or toddlerwise philosophy deals with punishments.
    July 29, 2008 3:22 AM
     
    Plowmanators said...
    Proudmum, Always good to look to the future. There are several posts on this blog about discipline. If you go to the blog index and look under discipline, you will see several posts that discuss babywise, toddlerwise, and childwise strategies.
    July 30, 2008 3:12 PM
Self Control

 
Toddlers
  • Christie said...
    my daughter is now 14 months and for the past month she has not been listening as well, when I lay her down for a nap she screams and when I pick her up she stops, and she now hates playpen time,something she used to love. I love Babywise and up until now she has been like clockwork with the program. Now that she is walking, should I move to roomtime instead of playpen time? Her naps have been short to none at all for the past month. Thanks for your advice!!
    September 11, 2008 11:34 AM
    Plowmanators said...
    Christie, I would do roomtime now. Also, go to the blog index and look through posts under "Discipline" and "Naps" and "Sleep Problems."
    September 15, 2008 6:48 PM
RELATED POSTS/BLOG LABELS

Public Behavior

Going out in public can sometimes seem like a scary adventure. Children are unpredictable, and you never know what they are going to do while you are out in the public eye. I like to expect the same level of good behavior in public as I do at home; in fact, I probably expect better behavior than at home in many cases in order to show respect to others who are out in public.

First, however, let us all acknowledge that most people out there understand that children are children. It is my hope that most people are understanding of the way children are and don't expect them to be perfect. I know that not all people are. There are some grandparents out there who seem to have forgotten what having young children was like. There are other people who are just plain impatient and judgemental. You can't do anything about them. Just focus on having your child behave the best you know he can and ignore the looks.

I remember one day when we were all at the library. We were working on keeping our children quiet. Our library is in a new building built just over a year ago. I can't figure out why, but they designed it so that sound echoes throughout the entire library, and the children's section is made of materials that produce and echo a lot of sound. So it can be one of those places for parents that becomes a stressful experience. This day we were picking some books to check out when in came a family with a few children. These children were all of elementary school age. I was happy to have them around making noise. They were really loud compared to my kids, and much older, so it took all focus away from my children (if there was any in the first place) :)

So the question is, what expectations can you have in public, and how to you reach them? Like I said earlier, I really have the same expectations at home as I do in public. I adjust for context. If the child is up past bedtime, I know it isn't fair to expect him to be as good as he would otherwise. If we are having dinner an hour late, I have to realize the same thing. That doesn't mean I allow inappropriate behavior, it just means I have more patience in dealing with the situation.

"Right" expectations are dependent on you. Each culture has different expectations. Each public location has its own "culture" and proper behavior. A sit-down restaurant is going to require a lot more from your child than McDonalds. You need to decide what proper expectations are. Now on to how to reach those expectations:
  • Start at Home: It starts at home. You absolutely cannot expect your child to obey you better in public than he does at home. Public brings over tiredness, boredom, overstimulation, hunger, excitement, etc. If your child doesn't obey you at home, he isn't going to in public.
  • Outline Expectations: If your child is old enough, sit them down and talk about the expectations you have for your trip. Children are not born knowing how to behave when they go out to eat. They are not born knowing that in a library, we whisper--they aren't even born knowing how to whisper. Tell your child what isn't allowed, and most of all tell them how to act. Show them and demonstrate. Demonstrate a whisper and have them try it out. This is Training in Times of Non-Conflict. The library is not the place to teach about whispering. Again, it starts at home.
  • Prepare for Success: Avoid taking your child out when it is naptime. If you are going to be eating dinner late, offer a light snack so they won't be too hungry to obey. Set your child up for success so the time spent out in public can be more enjoyable for everyone.
  • Help Them Out: If you are going out to dinner, don't expect your child to just sit there quietly the entire time with nothing to do. Help him out. If he likes to color, bring some crayons and paper. Brayden wasn't a color-er as a young toddler, so I would bring a car for him to drive around. He was expected to be quiet about it, but he had it. Also, don't break these items out as soon as you get there. Wait until you see the need, and only pull out one at a time. At restaurants, I like to delay my children from eating as long as possible. Children get full quickly and don't eat much. At a restaurant, you spend a lot more time sitting at the table than you do at home. If they eat right away, they won't be hungry by the time the main meal arrives. Also, in going out to eat, you might want to bring along some food you know your child likes. This is especially true for the baby who eats baby food and some finger foods. Bring some finger foods for the baby to eat while everyone else eats if you aren't sure the restaurant will have something your baby can eat there.
  • Don't Start Something You Don't Want to Finish: I don't let my kids get out of their seats at a restaurant. If you do it once, they will want to do it every time. This is something that must start at home. My kids can't get down from the table until they are done eating, and they have to ask to get down. Remember, it starts at home. I also don't let my kids down when we are somewhere like the grocery store. They stay in the cart where I know they are safe and not grabbing things they shouldn't. Yes, the day will come when they start to walk along behind me, but that will be when I know they are 100% ready for that freedom.
  • Be the Same Person: You need to have the same expectations and reactions in public as you do at home. If you give in out in public and allow behavior that you wouldn't allow at home, it won't take long for your child to put two and two together. They are smart enough to differentiate between different locations. I think one reason my kids are quite good in public is that my discipline methods are the same. I give my Mommy Glare. I take away privileges if needed. I am able to be the same. They know public is not a place where they can get away with things they couldn't otherwise.
  • Maintain Expectations, But Adjust For Context: At home, our children are expected to sit still, fold their arms, and be quiet for prayers. When they (mostly Kaitlyn at this point) try to get up, I will hold her in my lap. At church, I maintain the same expectation. I will take her in my lap if she refuses to fold her arms as she should. Sometimes she will start to whine. Most of the time, she will stop after a moment. There have been a few times when she will start to then cry. At this point, I might put her down. I don't want to disrupt the prayer for everyone else while I teach my child. We can work on it more at home, if needed.
  • React: When your child misbehaves, react to it. Don't be afraid. I know it can be intimidating to give your child instructions in front of people. If he doesn't obey, you might be left looking a bit silly. Have confidence in your child. Again, this must start at home. I remember when Brayden was about one year old. I remember being at friend's homes or at the park with several different moms and being faced with the decision of whether or not to instruct him to change what he was doing. I chose to do so. My heart raced a bit as I waited to see his reaction. He listened! I remember being at the park. We had just moved here and Brayden was 13 months old. The play area is not safe for a wobbly toddler and the stairs are really steep, so I instructed Brayden to stay off the stairs. I was about 20 feet from him when he approached the stairs. I called out to him and told him that was a no and he needed to stay off the stairs. The faces of the other mothers were a bit amused at first; here was this first time mother with her little 13 month old expecting him to listen to her from 20 feet a way. Well, he did it, and the faces turned from amazement to shock. Last year at the park, we experienced similar reactions with Kaitlyn. Even though they had seen it with Brayden, they were shocked to see her do it also. I think they thought I just had a good kid in Brayden, which I do, but he has been taught to be that way. And last year at the park I came to realize that my heart no longer raced when I asked my children to do something in public. I no longer hesitated in my instructions. I had reached full confidence as a mother and did not fear instructing my children in public.
  • Tell What to Do: You will need to tell your child to not do X, but offer what to do also. For example, at church I say, "We don't run in the church. We walk." Just saying "We don't run" doesn't tell the child what is appropriate. All that tells him is running is not. It says nothing of skipping, jumping, hopping...what may seem obvious to you is not to your child. Your child does not have the same life experiences that you do.
  • Do Not Belittle: Do not say things that are unkind toward your child. I hope you wouldn't do this at home, either, but don't do it in public. Think of how you would feel if your spouse criticized your character in public. I remember one time while shopping a mother said to her child, "You are such a brat!" I felt so sad for him. You can correct your child and instruct proper behavior while still being kind.
  • Offer Praise: When your child is behaving appropriately, thank him and tell him what he is doing right. "Thank you for sitting so still. That is such a good boy." This reinforces his behavior and also gives him a clue as to what it is he is supposed to be doing.
  • Practice: When I was pregnant with Brayden, I went to a women's conference. One of the speakers there was a mother of 8-10 children. They were all closely spaced and she had a few sets of twins. Life must have been hectic for her. But she was the happiest lady. She shared that when her children were young, her husband was serving in the Bishopric, which meant that during church he sat in front of the congregation, leaving her alone with all of her children. I am sure many moms would want to stay home. Others would opt for the back of the room. She decided they would sit in the front of the room. When her children did not behave as they should at church, they had church practice during the week. Each day, they would sit for an hour being quiet and still. I am sure her children quickly learned that they could either be reverent at church for that one day or practice at home for 6, plus church for the 7th. If your child has a hard time with something, practice at home.

Your child won't be perfect in public. My children are not always angels. There are days we go out and it just doesn't go well. But most of the time, they are wonderful. I often get strangers come up to me and compliment me on how well-behaved my children are. A few weeks ago, I thought my children were being rather rowdy during church. That day, I got several compliments on how great they were. Their behavior was not acceptable for my husband and me, but they still somehow managed to impress people around us--it might have been Kaitlyn's cute smile :).

The rough experiences will happen, but overall, going out in public can be something you all enjoy. You can go to restaurants and have an enjoyable meal. I know people who just don't take their children to sit-down restaurants because it is too stressful for them. You don't have to be that way. You can enjoy your time together as a family.

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